Loose wheel picked a fine time to leave Transit this morning

"Aremmes" (aremmes) 02/20/2020 at 12:35 • Filed to: Kenny Rogers saw this coming, Ford Transit, LOOSEWHEEL

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Not the Transit in question

On my drive to work this morning, I saw a Transit van on the side of the road with a severe case of lost wheel and a poor schmuck with a confused face on the driver’s seat. Once I got closer, I noticed that the left rear axle was missing not just the wheel, but also the brake rotor, caliper, caliper bracket, hub, and axle shaft. I wondered how this van managed to pull off such a feat, and then I found the wheel with the aforementioned missing parts still attached to each other about 50 yards down the road. I wanted to take a picture, but that would’ve required me stopping at an intersection, plus the driver was looking at me with a face that screamed “My day done got fucked up bad.”

Still impressed by what I saw, I searched online for similar stories from other people, and found that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . However, the stranded Transit from this morning wasn’t a dually. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! covers just the driveshaft giubo. I did not stop to check if the driveshaft had also gone AWOL.

Is this a "thing" happening frequently on Transits?

vondon302 > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 12:44

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I’ve seen that at the strip but never on the street.

Bandit > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 12:50

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It is such a weird feeling to have your rear wheel pass you (image hopefully not kinja’d) ...

nerd_racing > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 13:00

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I lost a tire once in the early spring. I was pulling over to figure out what was happening and it came loose, passed me, went across the road, and then I saw a huge splash. It went into a normally dry creek and I couldn’t catch up to it. I had to watch my brand new snow tire float away. Later I found that the threads ripped out of the lug nuts and that was what caused the tire to come off.

Sometimes you just gotta let things go... and sometimes you gotta chew out the tire shop who sold you the lug nuts and stripped the hell out of them with their impact guns.  The other 3 wheels were on their way to following.  Learned a valuable lesson that week.  

Nom De Plume > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 13:44

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It is an unfortunate and common occurrence to see wheels ripped off vehicles during a typical harsh Winter here. Harshness of which is quickly judged quite so when full sized trucks begin falling prey.

Have not seen a single missing wheel this Winter or terror pot holes waiting to catch the unwary.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 14:08

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This happened to someone on the Transit forum a few weeks ago while driving home from the dealer after a brake job. They torqued the wheel lug nuts but apparently forgot to torque the axle bolts.

I don’t understand why the Transit is set up like that. You have to remove the wheel and then the axle to change brake pads and rotors.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 14:09

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Saw an identical axle/wheel/etc loss, except the axle still had about three inches stuck in the tube. This one was also a single wheel transit, not a dually. I think it was also a newer van based on the appearance. I was going the opposite direction on the highway so I wasn’t able to get a picture, but it was left side as well. I wonder if Ford has another recall on these about to happen?

Edit: VincentMalamute-Kim’s reply indicates this could be due to lax service when doin g brake jobs... Not a failure exactly, just a stupid design. 

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/20/2020 at 14:11

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Ohhhh... this could explain it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/20/2020 at 14:34

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A semi-floating rather than full floating axle design that uses a captive rotor? That seems... odd.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 14:36

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Lots of vehicles back in the day with a semi-floating axle that allows a wheel to go walkies with the axle if the bearings fail. For it to be set up with a retainer that has to be taken loose to do the brakes as VincentMalamute-Kim mentions is kind of weird.

I would assume the heavier duty transits have a customary full-floating axle and can’t do that.

VincentMalamute-Kim > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/20/2020 at 14:42

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ah. I don’t know anything about rear axle design . Other than I have a Transit and know that’s how you have to do a rear brake job.

VincentMalamute-Kim > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 02/20/2020 at 14:46

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It sounds like you may have passed the guy in my photo. It looks like there may be less than 3" left in the tube in the photo.

I keep up on the Transit forum and read about a bunch of typical failures. This isn’t one of them.

I kinda want to ask why it’s a stupid design but I probably don’t as I don’t understand this semi and full floating business. I assume there’s non-floating axles - is that solid axles? No need to answer as I don’t want to dig into the topic at the moment.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > Aremmes 02/20/2020 at 15:09

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Aremmes > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/20/2020 at 15:09

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You have to remove the wheel and then the axle to change brake pads and rotors.

I can’t even.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Bandit 02/20/2020 at 15:11

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OOF, I only ever had a hub-cap outrun me in the Montego when I owned it. Nice little burn out slide around the corner and off that fucker went down the road and across 5 lanes of traffic.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/20/2020 at 15:46

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Basically, a lot of medium duty axles (including ones capable of a lot of torque) have a bearing that supports the axle shaft and retains it, which in turn serves as a wheel bearing. A heavier-duty axle needs a wider bearing “base” and needs to be able to handle flexion in the axle tube without requiring that the axle itself bend - which, with a permanently attached flange on the axle, is what basically would have to happen. So, with a full-floating axle, the wheel mounts to a hub bearing system attached to the axle housing, and the axle runs free through the housing, almost more like a CV axle with no CV joints.

Most full floating designs use an opposed tapered roller system or multiple ball bearings:

This is an older Land Rover: there is a permanent spindle that supports two tapered rollers in the hub, a nut adjusts the tension of the bearings, and the axle shaft goes through the center and attaches *flexibly* to a drive flange.

Many semi-floating designs just have a ball bearing instead of the two rollers. If the ball bearing fails, it is actually the only thing holding the wheel in place left to right.

Here’s a Ford 9", one of the most popular axles ever:

As you can see, the retainer holds the ball bearing, the ball bearing holds the axle, the axle holds the wheel.

So, it’s not something that weird for a Ford, historically.

What makes it really weird is to combine that with the worst aspects of old-time Ford disc brake practices and put the disc behind the hub face rather than in front of it. Really bad idea.

Here’s an ‘80s Ford truck front . As you can see, the rotor is retained to the hub by the lug studs... but the hub is full floating, so you can take it apart.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/20/2020 at 17:03

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N ope, my guy was before the snow fell and the van had Vermont plates. But it did indeed look just like that. W as headed south on I- 89 between Stowe/Waterbury and Montpelier .

VincentMalamute-Kim > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/20/2020 at 23:12

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wow, thanks for taking the time for that thorough explanation. A pic from the forum makes the Transit’s 9.75" look closer to your pic of the Ford 9".

pip bip - choose Corrour > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/21/2020 at 07:41

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european “engineering”

fucking insane at times

Agorist > Aremmes 02/21/2020 at 10:08

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You picked a fine time to leave me, loose-wheel.

scopescanner > Aremmes 02/21/2020 at 10:27

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Ford s ervice information states that the bolts that hold the axle to the hub are to be replaced once removed on those Transit vans . They are Torque to Yield bolts. All of the YouTube videos that I’ve seen have never mentioned that bit of info. Initial torque is 50ft/lbs plus 90°. I’m sure the person that re installed that axle used an impact wrench and let it go. I suppose the lowest bidder to that job didn’t have any service info.

VincentMalamute-Kim > pip bip - choose Corrour 02/21/2020 at 11:17

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But it’s not Germans! It’s not overengineered. And I thought Transits were mainly England.

Now that you mention it, this seems like it could be French engineering.

Aremmes > scopescanner 02/21/2020 at 12:34

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Damn, that's worse than I thought. I don't understand what's better about that design to justify adding so much more complexity and opportunity for catastrophic failure.

scopescanner > Aremmes 02/21/2020 at 13:03

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I’ve done a Transit, and the design effectively doubles the cost of doing a brake job compared to a similar sized Econoline. Why they would design a captured rotor brake system doesn’t make sense to me either. I’m sure the lawyers will have a field day. Woe to the guy that worked on it last and didn’t follow factory procedures .

pip bip - choose Corrour > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/21/2020 at 17:10

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most Transits are built in Turkey now (iirc)

bound to be engineered by Germans though, iirc that’s where the engineering hq is

VincentMalamute-Kim > pip bip - choose Corrour 02/21/2020 at 18:26

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Transit Connects are Turkey I believe. US Transits are built in Kansas City. A lot of Transit parts are built in Turkey though.

I was just thinking that Germans do ‘sensible’ design, just way overcomplicated and prone to failure.  That inboard rotor design just seems idiotic like it should be a French design.

pip bip - choose Corrour > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/21/2020 at 18:39

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French or German, either way its European “engineering”